Curse

Neo Atomisk · Jun 21, 2009, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Konig, look deep into a Seer's eyes and tell me you don't think of martians.
That being said, I continue to stick with my Aliens/spaceship theory.

Nah, but in all seriousness, my guts are telling me that Lyssa created it.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 21, 2009, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

As to my take on the architects of the Eye of the North, I do not believe that they are the Seers. Not only is the Scrying Pool but a tenuous connection to them, but there is no existing Seer architecture with which to compare it to, and there is no evidence of there even being a Seer presence in the Far Shiverpeaks. Even further than that, there is no evidence of a battle having taken place in the Far Shiverpeaks.

No one actually said the battle took place in the Far Shiverpeaks. :3 Just that it was a Seer building. It could have been a "far out" structure that only a handful of Seers maintained - maybe those handful are the ones we see in Prophecies. Ah, but then that's just nonsense because there's no support for it. (At least it is logical).

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

No old ruins that resemble the Eye of the North's architecture, not many ruins at all in fact, which, considering the Seer's defeat, you'd expect there to be many such ruins. Especially if the Eye of the North was a centerpiece of their architecture built to survive, if the Far Shiverpeaks were where most of them resided, you'd expect to see quarries or even homes dotting the area around the Eye of the North. Think about the massive pyramids in Egypt, an architectural feat in its time, and, the slaves used to build it lived in close proximity to it.

Again, where did we say "the Eye of the North was a centerpiece of their architecture" or "if the Far Shiverpeaks were where most of them resided" don't think I did, and if I did, then I mistyped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Honestly, if we're going to link the Seers to anything , we should link them to the mysterious city of Moladune. This has more support because:

It is in close proximity to a Seer.
It is also not attributed to any of the in-game races.
It disappeared in a cataclysmic event, with only the mines to show it once existed.
It existed for thousands of years. People keep speculating the Seers are ancient, and we do have support for this from the Ancient Seers on the Ring of Fire Islands Chain, so..Here's support for Moladune being a city of theirs.

And I actually agree with Moladune being a city of theirs, but that doesn't mean that the Seers didn't build the Eye of the North.

Though, something I noticed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Mines of Moladune description

Centuries ago the city of Moladune is said to have lain here in the southern Shiverpeak Mountains. A shining palace of ice and stone, legends say that it stood for thousands of years, then fell one bright dawn in a single earthshaking crash, leaving behind no sign of its inhabitants. Today, the mines are the only sign that the city might once have been more than myth.

Perhaps, if the Eye of the North is "Seerian" then the Ice Pillar was a work of theirs? (Going off the ice part :P if they could build palace cities using ice, then they sure can build a large sculpture).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

After all EOTN events do take place several yrs after all 3 games. 2i believe isnt it?

6 years since Post-searing prophecies/factions, 8 years since pre-searing, 3 years since Nightfall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Oh and on the subject of Me earlier saying that Forgotten arent that old..well if u look at Official Timeline the date for the Gods bringing the forgotten to Tryia there is still like 8300 yrs of unrecorded history from the disappearance of Giganticus Lupicus in -9800 DR and the arrival of the Forgotten in -1569 DR thats a lot more time then the amount of time the Forgotten have been here on Tyria which is lonly like 2800 yrs. And as far as I know Anet hasnt given any timeline of the Gods arrival on Tyria...though if we assume that Glint being the first creature they placed here as Tyrias caretaker (prehaps planning in advance that they would one day leave Tyria behind) with Glints Arrival guessed at 3001-3999, based on offical wiki statement of older then 3000yrs, we could guess the gods arrived around or slightly b4 that time.

For Glint's age, "over 3000 years" is said because it was approx. 3000 years since the Forgotten where made, and Glint is the first creature put on the planet. But that doesn't mean the Gods didn't have arrived shortly before if she actually was the first creature put on the planet by the gods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Given the fact that the Mursaat Call the Gods "false gods" we can surmise that the mursaat and seers were here long b4 that.

Actuallly, the Mursaat never call the gods "false" - it is the White Mantle who do, because they worship the Mursaat over the "True Gods".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

The Few remaining or even 1 remaining Seer may have been hiding at the Eye while the Mursaat very well could have had some way to "cloak" their city from the gods...though this does seem a bit unlikely since "ascension"/Closer to the Stars...etc" is kinda like becoming partly divine...so it would be believable that the Gods could probably see the Mursaat...maybe even had some unrecorded war with them..we dont know. So that pretty much puts the Mursaat and Seer war and the races themselves here long b4 the coming of the gods...

This is still just a hypothesis, with one incorrect thing which you have as a seemingly major part. of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

The Seer even states " May the Luck of your Gods be with you"..so more disassociation there...

Or the Seers just have a different faith, like the Norn do, or the Charr, or the White Mantle, or the Asura.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Maybe the Mursaat and/or seers are the race that defeated/sealed the dragons...or Maybe even though the Dragons have power rivalling the Gods maybe they can't see the mursaat...just a though. And as for the Seers..maybe since they seem to be so small in number evading giant flying lizards should be fairly ez for a race of their suppose "power" and Maybe if the Seers did Build it maybe it was built after the seers were alreadly losing their war with the mursaat and it was build cause they could forsee the gods coming, the choosing defeating the mursaat and so they new that since they were a dying race they built The Eye to aid those that would destroy their ancient enemies, the mursaat.

Connecting the Ancient Dragons... not going to comment. The Seers, seemingly, only knew of the Chosen defeating the Mursaat because of Glint. The Seer we talk in in Iron Mines of Moladune even says "if the prophecies are to be believed" which means the Seer isn't completely sure it will work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

As far as the Eye playing a role in the sealing/defeat...etc of the ancient dragons...IDK IMO the Eye seems mainly to be a Scrying Device and Monument...maybe the builders forsaw the Chosen needing to record his/her accomplishments so that his/her descendants would know their lineage and have knowledge, tools and allies( Descendants of ur ancestors friends..aka heros) to aid in their struggle against the Dragons.

For what the Scrying Pool shows, I think it just shows what a chosen/ascended being wishes to see. Like a TV. Not that it is preordaind to show certain things to certain people at certain times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Though concidering that it sounds like the Eye will be abandoned in 250 yrs..does that mean that we are gonna have to travel there to access our ancestors accomplishments, cause I was kinda under the impression that we'd be able to access the HoM from the get go....

I'd say we have to work for it. That is, if it will be anything more than /bonus weapons and CE-like dances etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Anyway I still say the seers built it probly during teh time between ancient dragons going to sleep and the gods arriving on Tyria is such a time exsists...yes we dont know when the gods got here but if Glint is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3001-3999 then i doubt the gods got here too much before that ..cause if they did would were they doing for thousands of yrs...having coffee and donuts with the mursaat?

I'd say they were elsewhere in the Mists, like another world. Baltehk implies other, older, worlds afterall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Moladune being a Seer city...i'd buy that;maybe it colapsed cause teh dang dwarves were mining under it...lol or the dredge...

As far as saying the seers didnt build it..we have more to make the guess that they did then any hard evidence to point to another race...though i definatly vote that the Eye was not a center point of their civilization ...maybe that why its still around.

I would say the Mursaat destroyed it. Which would mean the war was recent - maybe that was the last battle before the Seers were almost wiped out. Either way, the destruction of the city was more recent than 3000 years ago (centuries, meaning 100-999 years ago) so if the now gone city that was at Iron Mines was indeed a Seer's city, than your hypothesis regarding of how long ago the war was would be tossed out the window. Since the city wasn't abandoned, so the Seers would have to be there around the time of the destruction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

As far as the Gods building the Eye...nah if they built in then one of the northern races woulda seen them do it or if they had that much Foresight then they wouldnt have abandoned us on Tyria to begin with...heck if they built it ..why isnt in in Arah...or Kaineng or near Sebelkah...its not near any known God ruins or human civilizations...Also if they gods had that great scrying pool how come they didnt forseer Abbadons betrayal, Dhuums Betrayal, or any number of other events that they could have had the power to stop if they had the foresight of a scrying pool..doesnt make sense.

Remove the "if they had that much Foresight then they wouldnt have abandoned us on Tyria to begin with" and I'd agree with this. Also, Dhuum didn't betray the other gods, he was just unjust in his god so Grenth challenged him and won.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

Konig, look deep into a Seer's eyes and tell me you don't think of martians.

-stares into a Seer's eyes so close and so long that the Seer's mind explodes-

No, I don't think they are aliens in the game. Very possible they are/were modeled after the Protoss or another alien, but in the game, I don't think they are aliens. Not until proof. And if they were, they wouldn't have much need for a spaceship I bet. They'd just travel from the Mists.

draxynnic · Jun 21, 2009, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roupe

Mursats are likely behind the magic device Eye of Janthir, used to find choosen
(but since the heroes are the choosen, perhaps the device didnt find the choosen -merely suitable souls for ritual material.)

Actually...

I've always thought of the Eye of Janthir as having responses to three different groups of people: Cleansed, Chosen, and Others. Its programming (or magical equivalent) is to follow the Cleansed, reveal the Chosen, and knock down Others.

What prevented the characters from being revealed as Chosen at that time is because they became Cleansed first - or, at least, were assumed by the Mantle to be Cleansed if, as in some groups, only some characters entered the well so as to better control where the Eye went. Thus, their status as Chosen is cloaked by the characters also having Cleansed status, which overrides the former in the Eye of Janthir's "programming".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Since it seems from multiple sources that its really freaking old that leaves out most of the known races on Tyria.

The Forgotten have, however, been on Tyria for over 2700 years. That might well be 'really freaking old' according to the standards of the speakers in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Happened on another planet or dimension prior to Guild Wars Story begining,
and Tyria is/was just a colony world of either race hense the small
numbers of either race. And to all those thinking that "Gw is a fantasy
game, how can u justify outerspace and aliens" let me remind you this is
a game created by some of the minds that brought us Starcraft. After all
listen to the mursaat ...they have many of the Protoss sound set from
starcraft. And Mursaat vs Seer just reminds me of Conclave vs Dark
Templar...Spectral Agony does seem more like a "psychic" power then a
magic spell...

That's a stretch, since the people you refer to were more from the Diablo side of things, and probably didn't work much on Starcraft (BNorth and BSouth were almost completely different design teams back then).

Plus, they don't need to have travelled through space to be aliens - they could have arrived from the Mists just as the Forgotten and, likely, the gods themselves did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

For A and B - nothing says anything about a Giganticus Lupicus/Ancient Dragon war. I would say that they are even part of the same race - that is that the Giganticus Lupicus were multiple races that we have been clasifying as one.

Basically, the Tyrian equivalent of dinosaurs. Just because there's one big classification doesn't meant there can't be subclassifications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roupe

also typing jungle in the wiki, gets you transfered into Maguuma jungle

Only because that's the jungle that we know has been named. We don't know if the jungles to the north are also part of the Maguuma.

To be honest, though, they probably are... but the Maguuma is a big place. The Mursaat cities could easily have been further east or north instead of south.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Oh and on the subject of Me earlier saying that Forgotten arent that old..well if u look at Official Timeline the date for the Gods bringing the forgotten to Tryia there is still like 8300 yrs of unrecorded history from the disappearance of Giganticus Lupicus in -9800 DR and the arrival of the Forgotten in -1569 DR thats a lot more time then the amount of time the Forgotten have been here on Tyria which is lonly like 2800 yrs. And as far as I know Anet hasnt given any timeline of the Gods arrival on Tyria...though if we assume that Glint being the first creature they placed here as Tyrias caretaker(prehaps planning in advance that they would one day leave Tyria behind) with Glints Arrival guessed at 3001-3999, based on offical wiki statement of older then 3000yrs, we could guess the gods arrived around or slightly b4 that time. Given the fact that the Mursaat Call the Gods "false gods" we can surmise that the mursaat and seers were here long b4 that. The Few remaining or even 1 remaining Seer may have been hiding at the Eye while the Mursaat very well could have had some way to "cloak" their city from the gods...though this does seem a bit unlikely since "ascension"/Closer to the Stars...etc" is kinda like becoming partly divine...so it would be believable that the Gods could probably see the Mursaat...maybe even had some unrecorded war with them..we dont know. So that pretty much puts the Mursaat and Seer war and the races themselves here long b4 the coming of the gods...The Seer even states " May the Luck of your Gods be with you"..so more disassociation there...Maybe the Mursaat and/or seers are the race that defeated/sealed the dragons...or Maybe even though the Dragons have power rivalling the Gods maybe they can't see the mursaat...just a though. And as for the Seers..maybe since they seem to be so small in number evading giant flying lizards should be fairly ez for a race of their suppose "power" and Maybe if the Seers did Build it maybe it was built after the seers were alreadly losing their war with the mursaat and it was build cause they could forsee the gods coming, the choosing defeating the mursaat and so they new that since they were a dying race they built The Eye to aid those that would destroy their ancient enemies, the mursaat.

Moar paragraph breaks plz.

Regarding the Mursaat - I don't think we ever do hear about the attitude of the Mursaat towards the gods... the 'false gods' talk is all second-hand. Remember that the Mursaat were trying to create a new religion, and the first step to doing so is always to declare that the old was false and possibly evil.

Of course, that they do do so implies that their relationship with the gods isn't exactly a good one... but on the other hand, neither is that of the Charr.

Regarding fighting the Dragons... it's possible. Weight of numbers from a magically potent race can bring down individually powerful foes... especially if it turns out the Dragons aren't Infused. However, it's just as likely that, say, they were both fighting on the same side as the gods at the time and broke at some later time - it could, for instance, have been the fighting between the Mursaat and the Seers that had really wreaked the magical devastation that ultimately lead to the creation of the Bloodstones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Perhaps, if the Eye of the North is "Seerian" then the Ice Pillar was a work of theirs? (Going off the ice part :P if they could build palace cities using ice, then they sure can build a large sculpture).

Interesting point. It could be that the Far Shiverpeaks are, in fact, littered with their ruins. We just don't recognise them as such because they're made of ice... and because, being ice, most of it has probably broken or melted over the centuries since they stopped being maintained.

If we do combine it to the hypothesis that the Seers fought the Ancient Dragons, this might also be saying suggestive things about how Drakkar ended up in the frozen lake it's named after.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 21, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Can't believe I didn't realize this before.

Stone and Ice structures... We see LOTS of that in the Far Shiverpeaks.

Frostmaw's Burrows, Raven's Point, Sepulchure of Dragrimmar, Secret Lair of the Snowmen. All structures made of mostly ice, and some stone here and there. the Ice Pillar is also a mostly-ice structure, as said.

Battle Depths are mostly stone and ice - though more stone than ice.

I need to look at these, and go back to Iron Mines (if there are any ruins that can be seen - don't think there is) to compare them all though. As of right now, that is just a random, mostly baseless thought, and while we cannot say "the seers built them all" we can say "the city of Moladune's founders are the same as the ones who built the depths in the Far Shiverpeaks.

Bayushi Kyo · Jun 21, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Actually you havent played your Starcraft lately have you Draxynnic...Jeff Strain and several other members of Anet have their names all over the credits of both core game and brood wars.

On the Ice Pillar I'd tend to agree that it and other ice and stone structures fit the bill for matching discription of the lost city of Moladune...heck for all we know the Ice Pillar could be a warning marking regarding Drakar Lake to the north. and yeh since Drakar lake is solid ice u could surmise that maybe the same race that built all the ice structures coulda sealed the dragon within the lake using whatever magic allowed them to work with ice...

also back on the Eye artitecture...the giant crystal..or maybe Ice panels that are in the open sections of the Eye...looks like they are reflectors for trapping the heat from the brazers and that massive central brazer on the ceiling but they could just be decorative...made of Ice or crystal...also the Eye does sit on another frozen lake and it looks like the base of the Eye goes farther below water lvl...was walking around it this morning.

Also we also all seem to forget the giant circular opening in the cloud cover high above the eye...thats a bit unnatural.

On the subject of "aliens" ...Konig is right I doubt space ships are involved..but the mists connect to other worlds and by our own modern definition of alien...aliens are anyone different then us and often from another place...the Forgotten by all definitions are Aliens...brought from another world or dimension within or through the mists to Tyria. So if the Gods can do that and Odran can travel the mists...why not Seers and Mursaat...Anet allreadly set the stage for travel to other dimensions/plants...heck for all we know FoW is not a dimension in the Mists but Balthazars home world...Anet just isnt very clear on the concepts.

Before ANet annouced the end to GW campaigns i was even figuring that 2-3 down the road were gonna be completely offworld say like fighting a war for one of the gods elsewhere across the mists...Why else did Anet tell us about the "other worlds" from Kenan the Scribe in ToA..well that was off topic but oh well...

Back to the Eye notice how Gwens garden is all nice and green...hot spring? And if it is then a hot spring capable of keeping that area warm...might also be the water for the scrying pool...then the Icy Lake around the Eye should be melting or melted for that matter...unless the lake is magically frozen ..like drakar probly is. the Hot spring isnt a stretch its just physics

Anyway think i'm gonna agree with Konig and go look around for more Ice and Stone ruins ...

Konig Des Todes · Jun 21, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

also the Eye does sit on another frozen lake and it looks like the base of the Eye goes farther below water lvl...was walking around it this morning.

The Eye of the North isn't on the ice, it is actually on the bed of the ice (i.e., on the land just before the ice). A portion does go over the ice, but not much. And by the looks of it, it doesn't seem like it goes under - though that is more of the model and hard to look into the ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Also we also all seem to forget the giant circular opening in the cloud cover high above the eye...thats a bit unnatural.

I'd assume it is a similar case to the sky above The Astralarium. Some magic used to clear the sky for observation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Back to the Eye notice how Gwens garden is all nice and green...hot spring? And if it is then a hot spring capable of keeping that area warm...might also be the water for the scrying pool...then the Icy Lake around the Eye should be melting or melted for that matter...unless the lake is magically frozen ..like drakar probly is. the Hot spring isnt a stretch its just physics

I always assumed Gwen's Garden was fertile because of her constant care.

Gmr Leon · Jun 21, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

No one actually said the battle took place in the Far Shiverpeaks. :3 Just that it was a Seer building. It could have been a "far out" structure that only a handful of Seers maintained - maybe those handful are the ones we see in Prophecies. Ah, but then that's just nonsense because there's no support for it. (At least it is logical).

Again, where did we say "the Eye of the North was a centerpiece of their architecture" or "if the Far Shiverpeaks were where most of them resided" don't think I did, and if I did, then I mistyped.

No one did say it, but by constructing an argument, it implies a point having been made that one disagrees with, thus by constructing the point myself within my argument as I argued against it, I deconstruct the possibility before it arises and solidifies itself to becoming an issue. By the way, don't talk about lack of support meaning something is nonsense in what appears to be a sarcastic manner, as you state the same point as an argument earlier in this thread yourself.

Also, as I look back over the posts, it would seem that I merged the Giganticius Lupicus/Ancient Dragon war speculation with the Mursaat/Seer war, hence my argument against it. However, my first sentence still stands, even if it was based on a misunderstanding, in doing so, I created the point in my argument and deconstructed it. Likewise with the other parts you point out that no one mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

And I actually agree with Moladune being a city of theirs, but that doesn't mean that the Seers didn't build the Eye of the North.

Allow me to quote this once more:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Mines of Moladune outpost description

A shining palace of ice and stone, legends say that it stood for thousands of years, then fell one bright dawn in a single earthshaking crash, leaving behind no sign of its inhabitants.

This implies no usage of metals in the architecture of the city. Now, perhaps, you see something icy in the golden/bronze colors of the Eye of the North's foundation, not including the odd crystal/glass protrusions and the frozen lake around it, but I honestly do not. That appears to be to me, as implied by my first sentence, metal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Though, something I noticed:
Perhaps, if the Eye of the North is "Seerian" then the Ice Pillar was a work of theirs? (Going off the ice part :P if they could build palace cities using ice, then they sure can build a large sculpture).

Now you're showing signs of Mursaat Syndrome. Seeing the Seers in a bit of everything ice-related.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

3000 years since the Forgotten where made

I'm going to keep hammering you for this one.

Since the Forgotten were summoned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draxynnic

Only because that's the jungle that we know has been named. We don't know if the jungles to the north are also part of the Maguuma.

To be honest, though, they probably are... but the Maguuma is a big place. The Mursaat cities could easily have been further east or north instead of south.

Er..When you say north, you mean north of Giant's Basin, right, or north of the Wilds? I'm not sure I'd call that jungle, but I can't argue to the contrary without seeing any of it, and the only bit we have seen is far north, in Verdant Cascades, assuming you mean north of Giant's Basin. As to east or north...We go almost the entire length and width of the Maguuma Jungle except for the mountains bordering it and Kryta and the mountains north of The Wilds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draxynnic

Regarding the Mursaat - I don't think we ever do hear about the attitude of the Mursaat towards the gods... the 'false gods' talk is all second-hand. Remember that the Mursaat were trying to create a new religion, and the first step to doing so is always to declare that the old was false and possibly evil.

Of course, that they do do so implies that their relationship with the gods isn't exactly a good one... but on the other hand, neither is that of the Charr.

However, the general assumption that they did know of the Gods is a bit much, I think. Given, most of the sentient races have some recognition of the Gods, but they're all in close proximity to a human presence. The Mursaat, on the other hand, are located in a remote region that we still don't know the exact location of, and it's likely a fair distance away from human civilization. This being the case, I find it just as likely they were unaware of the Gods, although I'm betting I'm forgetting something that points to the contrary, and with Saul's reaction to them as being divine, well, why wouldn't you take advantage of that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draxynnic

Interesting point. It could be that the Far Shiverpeaks are, in fact, littered with their ruins. We just don't recognise them as such because they're made of ice... and because, being ice, most of it has probably broken or melted over the centuries since they stopped being maintained.

If we do combine it to the hypothesis that the Seers fought the Ancient Dragons, this might also be saying suggestive things about how Drakkar ended up in the frozen lake it's named after.

And the second symptom of the Mursaat Syndrome, diffusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Can't believe I didn't realize this before.

Stone and Ice structures... We see LOTS of that in the Far Shiverpeaks.

Frostmaw's Burrows, Raven's Point, Sepulchure of Dragrimmar, Secret Lair of the Snowmen. All structures made of mostly ice, and some stone here and there. the Ice Pillar is also a mostly-ice structure, as said.

Battle Depths are mostly stone and ice - though more stone than ice.

I need to look at these, and go back to Iron Mines (if there are any ruins that can be seen - don't think there is) to compare them all though. As of right now, that is just a random, mostly baseless thought, and while we cannot say "the seers built them all" we can say "the city of Moladune's founders are the same as the ones who built the depths in the Far Shiverpeaks.

And finally, contrary to usual symptoms of the Mursaat Syndrome, a healthy dose of the Doubt Vaccine is applied.

Also, as to all of those dungeons, let's keep in mind the fact that they likely reuse certain aspects of the other dungeons, and thus possibly invalidate them as worthy of research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Also we also all seem to forget the giant circular opening in the cloud cover high above the eye...thats a bit unnatural.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I'd assume it is a similar case to the sky above The Astralarium. Some magic used to clear the sky for observation.

This isn't designed for lore purposes, but merely due to the way they design the skies in-game. However, I suppose that could act as a viable explanation in the cases of places such as the Astralarium. At any rate, in each area, if you look directly above you you'll notice a similar effect in the sky.

Bayushi Kyo · Jun 21, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Constant care cant make flowers grow in the cold and snow...just not possible Konig...thats why I made the assumption of a hot spring..unless anet is saying that Gwen can use her mesmer skills to charm flowers into growing in a hostile enviroment. I just took Gwen out and listened to her talk again...and she definately isnt the one making the Iris flowers grow..so its obviously an outside force...natural or magic either one.

Oh and i took another trip around the Eye and ur mostly right the Eye rests for the most part on the bedrock of the peninsula of land; But anyway i Took some screen shots..the Eye does extend below the surface of the ice... so either it was put there b4 the lake froze or anet just placed it there w/o reason. More i think about it with eotn seeming to be rushed in wake of Anet canceling the Utopia project i wonder how much was thought out and how much was slapped together...

Konig Des Todes · Jun 21, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

This implies no usage of metals in the architecture of the city. Now, perhaps, you see something icy in the golden/bronze colors of the Eye of the North's foundation, not including the odd crystal/glass protrusions and the lake frozen lake around it, but I honestly do not. That appears to be to me, as implied by my first sentence, metal.

I was simply meaning that the Seer architecture could include metal at other locations. Just as a thought, that is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Also, as to all of those dungeons, let's keep in mind the fact that they likely reuse certain aspects of the other dungeons, and thus possibly invalidate them as worthy of research.

I think the Battle Depths is it's own through and through. The others I said - the ice dungeons, use no more than within each other. So it wouldn't be too far to say - at least for Raven's Point and Sepulchure of Dragrimmar - that they had the same origins. And for the other two, hard to say, but possible.

As Raven's Point has it's own special room - the room with Raven's Shrine - and there is commentary on the unique look of that room - it most likely not to disclude that dungeon - room at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

This isn't designed for lore purposes, but merely due to the way they design the skies in-game. However, I suppose that could act as a viable explanation in the cases of places such as the Astralarium. At any rate, in each area, if you look directly above you you'll notice a similar effect in the sky.

... some areas very is lore-based in their skies. Such as the Astralarium which has a night sky in a circle - outside that circle is a day sky. Thus meaning that magic can clear the sky, and a lesser magic than that of the Astralarium could clear the clouds, but not the rest.

Recalling the Hall of Monuments, at a point a beam of light can come from the top the tower of the Eye of the North. Don't know if this can be taken to have lore value. But if the cloud thing, and the beam of light, can be taken at lore value - then they may be connected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Constant care cant make flowers grow in the cold and snow...just not possible Konig...thats why I made the assumption of a hot spring..unless anet is saying that Gwen can use her mesmer skills to charm flowers into growing in a hostile enviroment. I just took Gwen out and listened to her talk again...and she definately isnt the one making the Iris flowers grow..so its obviously an outside force...natural or magic either one.

Heat will get rid of the perma frost. Fertilizaer will help it grow. So she could of had help from a pyromancer. Also possible of a hot springs, I was just offering alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Oh and i took another trip around the Eye and ur mostly right the Eye rests for the most part on the bedrock of the peninsula of land; But anyway i Took some screen shots..the Eye does extend below the surface of the ice... so either it was put there b4 the lake froze or anet just placed it there w/o reason. More i think about it with eotn seeming to be rushed in wake of Anet canceling the Utopia project i wonder how much was thought out and how much was slapped together...

Most of EN was rushed. From EN to Asura structures (any structure in the Tarnished Coast and CTC share the same skins - from ruins which cannot be asuran, to structures that must be) - not to mention the dungeons. So that doesn't surprise me. But how can you tell the Eye of the North goes under the ice? I couldn't...

draxynnic · Jun 22, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayushi Kyo

Actually you havent played your Starcraft lately have you Draxynnic...Jeff Strain and several other members of Anet have their names all over the credits of both core game and brood wars.

They would be, because they were largely responsible for Bnet. Doesn't mean the Seers are a Protoss expy, though. In fact, greater association with Starcraft would probably make them less likely to make a Protoss expy - such things are generally done by third parties being influenced by the original, while the people responsible are more likely to do something different in future franchises... especially if they left the company they originally did it with.

Yes, I say this knowing full well that the Warcraft 3 storyline was a rehash of the Starcraft storyline with some names and details changed to protect the guilty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Er..When you say north, you mean north of Giant's Basin, right, or north of the Wilds? I'm not sure I'd call that jungle, but I can't argue to the contrary without seeing any of it, and the only bit we have seen is far north, in Verdant Cascades, assuming you mean north of Giant's Basin. As to east or north...We go almost the entire length and width of the Maguuma Jungle except for the mountains bordering it and Kryta and the mountains north of The Wilds.

Northern part of the jungles. It was really 'in the general direction of the Verdant Cascades' that I was thinking - I hadn't checked the map to see what the terrain was actually implied to be by the map, I was just working off the knowledge that there was jungle up there (the Cascades). To be honest, though, it's probably more likely to be east than north (so the Mursaat can have easier access to the Ring of Fire), but my point was we don't have any firm evidence that the Mursaat actually were on the Tarnished Coast. In fact, considering that the area seems to be somehow connected with Orr (as evidenced by the Shards of Orr dungeon), it might be argued that it actually isn't isolated enough to have been the location of the Mursaat city.

Plus, the Mursaat having gates as well, they may not need easy access to the Ring of Fire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

And the second symptom of the Mursaat Syndrome, diffusion.

I was taking the hypothesis and running with it to see where it went. Doesn't mean I actually believe it to be true.

Bayushi Kyo · Jun 22, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

my old Intel chip set on my secondary computer can see translucently through the ice...i can see the building below the surface. I can get the screens uploaded i just need to locate my old photobucket account info and i'll get them posted i took about 4-5 screens from various locations and angles.

and i took some notice that the main spire of the Eye is looks to be nothing but a giant exhaust vent for the massive brazer on the ceiling of the EOTN outpost...problably allowing the fire to vent high enough to prevent snow from putting it out...given the central role in the structure that the giant brazer occupies u could possibly surmise that the Eye was ment to serve a purpose involving that brazar...as the scrying pool isnt located int he Eye itself its located int eh Hall of Monuments. maybe ment to serve as a refuge from the hostile cold outside...allthough the open sided nature of the Eye seems to make that unlikely or maybe it did serve as some form of seal against one of the dragons...most obviously the "dragon of ice and snow" that will drive the Norn south as told in the Movement of the World...but thats just hypothesis.

I know u will so feel free to crit what i just said...

Neo Atomisk · Jun 22, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

What if the Seers are from the other worlds the gods created AE?

Bayushi, I'd like to see those pics. O_o

Bayushi Kyo · Jun 22, 2009, 02:55 AM // 02:55

You whats funny is that Ancient Dragons are suppose to be from "a time before the gods" but its stated ingame that Tyria was the 1st world that the gods created...IMO more like terraformed to make it habitable for man to live on. Maybe the Gods of Tyria are just the "New Gods on the Block" and they kicked the old ones out...or they moved on just as the gods of Tyria did..idk...i think anet needs to get its storyline straight and settled so we can stop making fools of ourselves chasing our tails...lol

Neo Atomisk · Jun 22, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11

99% of our sources of lore are ingame or written by someone in the GW universe.
For the longest time, it was believed that God created the universe. Now we know that a God (most likely) did not create the universe.

This is to say that the people of Tyria know no better than that the Gods made the world.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 22, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

As Neo stated, all lore we have are written from an in-game perspective (thus, not breaking the 4th wall *characters stating that they know they are in a story/show/game*). Because of this, the information is actually fallible, though because it is the best we have, we have to take it as canon until something later counteracts what we know - which has been done thanks to Nightfall.

Though that doesn't mean we should go "oh yes, we got new information, and it contradicts some old information! That information must be wrong!", instead we should go "oh yes, we got new information, and it contradicts some old information! That information could be wrong. We need to note the contradictions."

Bayushi Kyo · Jun 22, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Ingame Information about the past makes for good theorizing since you could pass all the old info off as Dogma that had been twisted by clergy over the generations to suit the needs of the Church...like what occurs in the RL.

But your right new information may contradict the old but doesnt invalidated it...for all we know both are incomplete truths.

Its like the game where u tell one person a phrase and have them repeat it to a person and that that person passes it on to another any by the time it gets past so many ppl its completely changed from what u originally told the 1st person...

Winnies Bro · Jun 27, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I was reading about Saul d'alessio on the wiki and read that 'Alone, broke, and lost, Saul wandered through a dense forest for several days, surviving on only roots and berries. On the fourth day, delirious with hunger, Saul emerged from the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens. The architecture was astounding, and the creatures who lived here were unlike any he had ever seen.'
Its not alot of infobut its quite a good possibility, considering that we know practically nothing about the Mursaat. I remember reading somewhere that the mursaat like shiny things,the eotn is definately shiny!
discuss please
also does anyone know why the ebon vanguard named the eye of the north the eye of the north?
the wiki says 'While within this outpost, looking straight up will reveal the great "eye" that this location is named after.... i havent noticed this... eyes as far as i know are generally used for seeing; yes i know i am a genius! the scrying pool refused to respond to anyone else except YOU!
perhaps the eye was 'watching' you, it saw your great deeds and decided to warn you about the destroyers by showing you the visions. you should by now have seen the strange blackness above the eye, perhaps that is a magical device that 'sees' all of tyria somehow. this is a bat farfetched but we know so little about it.
the wiki says' NPCs and characters do not walk on the ground here, they walk a few inches above it.' maybe a glitch, but then again, the mursaat float above the ground.

Gmr Leon · Jun 27, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnies Bro

Its not alot of infobut its quite a good possibility, considering that we know practically nothing about the Mursaat.

That's exactly why it isn't a good possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnies Bro

the wiki says' NPCs and characters do not walk on the ground here, they walk a few inches above it.' maybe a glitch, but then again, the mursaat float above the ground.

It's merely a glitch.

If this were on GWO I would have merged your posts in the other thread, explained how to add images to a post, closed it, and linked to an existing thread. Likewise, I would have closed this thread, and linked it to an existing thread. Search before you post, and don't post when you've taken in a lot of caffeine and/or sugar.

Winnies Bro · Jun 27, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

That's exactly why it isn't a good possibility.

It's merely a glitch.

If this were on GWO I would have merged your posts in the other thread, explained how to add images to a post, closed it, and linked to an existing thread. Likewise, I would have closed this thread, and linked it to an existing thread. Search before you post, and don't post when you've taken in a lot of caffeine and/or sugar.

i dont know how to merge or link postsnor close them. whats GWO?
theres no point in deleting or linking/merging any threads it seems pointless to me...

Gmr Leon · Jun 27, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Only moderators can do what I mentioned at the bottom of my post, hence why I said "If this were on GWO", as I maintain the Lore Forums there. The reason behind closing your threads, is due to the existence of the thread already, albeit most likely under another name. This is to lessen the redundancy of discussion, and to keep it within one topic.